Episode 3 - Max Brand
00;00;00;02 - 00;00;05;27
Maddi Albregts
This podcast is brought to you by MAD Company, a nonprofit theater company based out of New York City.
00;00;08;25 - 00;00;25;12
James Hale
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of One Hale of a Conversation, the current title of this podcast. I am James Hale. I am the Executive Director of MAD Company and your host - at the moment - for this podcast. With me today in the studio is the inimitable Max Brand.
00;00;25;20 - 00;00;28;03
Max Brand
Oh, thank you. One Hale of a podcast.
00;00;28;11 - 00;00;28;26
James Hale
Wonderful name.
00;00;28;27 - 00;00;30;22
Max Brand
Love that name and I love that person.
00;00;31;09 - 00;00;32;29
Helena Mueller
Thank you. I'm going to make you redo it.
00;00;32;29 - 00;00;34;00
James Hale
I might record another one.
00;00;34;01 - 00;00;37;13
Lauren Zbylski
It's terrifying.
Helena Mueller
And then left. Left it behind or tired.
00;00;37;18 - 00;00;42;07
James Hale
And we're back for that exciting interruption. What? Next season? The hold. My name is James Hale.
00;00;48;13 - 00;00;52;27
James Hale
We're very excited to have you here today. I've got lots of questions, so we're just going to dive right in.
00;00;52;28 - 00;00;53;19
Max Brand
Sounds great.
00;00;53;27 - 00;01;06;12
James Hale
First up, I'm wondering, I've done all my homework, I promise. But sure, you are an actor, a writer, a comic, an assistant director. Are there any other titles that we need to add so that everyone is aware of your talents?
00;01;07;02 - 00;01;21;12
Max Brand
I would say producer. I think I produced a decent amount of things. So yeah, I think, I think that's probably the scope of my current bag of tricks, all of which I don't know if I had ambition for, but they were necessary to continue to perform. Yes. Continue.
00;01;21;13 - 00;01;46;03
James Hale
Right. You had, you had to do them. Yeah. Not necessarily desire to. Yeah. Excellent. So you are from, I guess, Colorado. It's a little bit difficult to tell from your, your bio. Many places, but we'll call it Colorado. I wonder if you can just, in your own words, sort of trace your journey from Colorado to New York City to becoming the treasurer for what I keep hearing is the most exciting young theater company in the world.
00;01;46;03 - 00;02;07;13
Max Brand
Yeah, I keep frankly, I hear the same thing. Every deli I go into, people are talking about it on the street. They're going crazy for it. I think it's road rage, but it's just someone stopping to talk to me about MAD Company. It's really great. But yes, it's my journey. I mean, for those of you who don't know anything about me, yeah, I was born in Montana and then we moved around the world for my dad's job.
00;02;07;13 - 00;02;28;22
Max Brand
But we always came back to Colorado. And so for the journey from Colorado to New York, it was mainly about school. You know, I. I wanted to be an actor since I was about four years old, so I always wanted to. Well, my original plan was to move out to L.A., live out of my car and make money, strumming my guitar on the streets and then audition during the day.
James Hale
Absolutely. The dream.
00;02;28;23 - 00;02;52;20
Max Brand
Yeah. I mean, so romantic and wonderful and very realistic. Looking back, it's just perfectly realistic. But I went to a thespian convention in high school, and I was taught a workshop by someone for what was known at that point as a school for film and television. And that school was based in New York City. So I was like, I'm looking at the school.
00;02;53;00 - 00;02;56;05
Max Brand
And that since it was based in New York, it kind of brought me out here.
00;02;56;22 - 00;02;59;16
James Hale
So, okay, So I didn't realize that you actually came for school.
00;02;59;17 - 00;03;09;08
Max Brand
Yeah, I came for a… it was a two year school because originally the plan was to be famous by 22. So I had to get out if...
00;03;09;08 - 00;03;10;05
James Hale
That was my plan as well.
00;03;10;06 - 00;03;24;03
Max Brand
Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, it makes sense. It's once again realistic and anchored in reality for most of us. So yeah, that was my plan that kind of brought me out here. And then I've just more or less stayed here for six years.
00;03;25;04 - 00;03;48;27
James Hale
Wow. Okay. 16 years. All right. That answer is a follow up, because you of our group, I think, have been here the longest. Other than maybe a couple of people who are from Long Island, New York. But you as a transplant, have certainly spent the most time in the city maybe. And I will follow up on that. Interesting. So you came here specifically for this two year program, also all over your bio and your resume is UCB.
00;03;48;27 - 00;03;52;09
James Hale
When did you start? When did you become an upright citizen? How did that happen?
00;03;53;22 - 00;04;14;03
Max Brand
Yeah, I started taking classes there in 2009, I think was my first class, so I got out of school for the School of Film and Television. I was auditioning and then I ended up taking a workshop from a commercial agent and they told me that if I wanted to get hired in commercials, I should take classes at UCB.
00;04;14;17 - 00;04;15;00
James Hale
Okay.
00;04;15;01 - 00;04;37;20
Max Brand
And so I went to a show there and I would say this was sort of the height of what UCB was at that point. If you don't know UCB, it's a… it's called the Upright Citizens Brigade. It's a theater started by Amy Poehler, Matt Walsh, Ian Roberts and Matt Besser, who are all famous in their own right. But they came out of Chicago and they started an improv school here and a theater first and then a school, and I just thought it was amazing.
00;04;37;20 - 00;04;49;27
Max Brand
And so I just kind of got hooked and taking classes. And I will say that I didn't really feel part of the community. I wouldn't say I was an upright citizen as you put it, which I love.
00;04;50;09 - 00;04;51;07
James Hale
Didnd’t have a badge or anything.
00;04;51;08 - 00;05;00;28
Max Brand
Right, right, right. We did get sweatshirts, which I never really wore when I was performing there. But then once it kind of all fell apart in the pandemic, I felt like I wanted to wear it more.
00;05;01;02 - 00;05;01;10
James Hale
There you go. Solidarity.
00;05;01;22 - 00;05;20;02
Max Brand
Yeah, but I think it was a, it was one of those things where it was a very, I mean, like any place there was a, there was an in crowd and the people who weren't quite part of it yet. And I always felt very much on the outside of that. And then I was put on teams there and I slowly felt more like I was part of it, but still a little bit on the outside.
00;05;20;09 - 00;05;31;09
Max Brand
But as it continued, I met more and more people that I got close to. I think when you start anything initially it's like, Oh, nobody here likes me. You know, I don't really work with anybody, right?
00;05;31;09 - 00;05;32;05
James Hale
RIght. I am the outsider.
00;05;32;06 - 00;05;39;21
Max Brand
Yeah. And then slowly you meet the people that you're like, Oh, you're actually way cooler than I thought. Or you know, you're not like, a total asshole. Right.
00;05;39;28 - 00;05;41;20
James Hale
Right. The ignorance of first impressions.
00;05;41;20 - 00;06;08;19
Max Brand
Yeah. So I think, you know, so I, I was there for quite a long time on a sketch team, and I did improv periodically, but I was primarily there as a sketch performer and I hosted shows and, and I think what I loved about it was that it was I mean, we were performing for free, but it was like we could kind of by the end, especially of my time there, I think I, I really felt like, you know, me and my friends could do what we wanted to do on stage.
00;06;08;19 - 00;06;16;13
Max Brand
And that was really fun. And whether it was midnight or not, it was kind of like, oh, I have this opportunity to just perform in New York City. And that was really exciting.
00;06;16;13 - 00;06;35;26
James Hale
Right. And that's, can be rare when you're not doing it. You don't realize how frequently you're not performing. So this is interesting. This is something I don't really understand that well about the comedy scene. What specifically are the differences between a sketch show and an improv show? Because in my head I would show up to either of them and assume it was the same thing.
00;06;36;01 - 00;06;50;26
Max Brand
Sure. I mean, hopefully, first of all, they're both funny. That's, hopefully they'll... Yeah, hopefully. I mean, that's their similarities for sure, as they're both probably intended to make you laugh an improv show basically is they would get a suggestion from the audience and make everything up on the spot.
00;06;51;00 - 00;06;51;09
James Hale
Okay.
00;06;51;18 - 00;07;13;19
Max Brand
So there are various forms of that, but that would be kind of the basic premise. And then a sketch show would be more like Saturday Night Live, where they've written all the sketches, they've rehearsed the sketches, and that's like, generally a half hour. And UCB would be like a whole sketch show, but it would be sometimes with a theme, sometimes without a theme, but it would be a bunch of individual sketches with actors.
00;07;13;19 - 00;07;35;09
James Hale
Interesting. And so, so these are like written and rehearsed ahead of time. It's not an improvised scenario, right? Okay. Oh important distinction that I, I come on this podcast to learn things. Hey, that's why, that's why I do this. So you, are at UCB you're at the School of Film and Television. You're breaking into New York, you're taking the city by storm.
00;07;35;22 - 00;07;40;05
James Hale
You decide to eventually leave to go to London.
00;07;40;05 - 00;07;40;25
Max Brand
Yes.
00;07;40;25 - 00;07;42;10
James Hale
How did that come about?
00;07;42;27 - 00;08;07;22
Max Brand
Well, it was actually funny. They sort of intermixed because I, so I was performing a lot at UCB. So, you know, generally probably about two times a week on average. And one of my shows, UCB, also had theaters in L.A. and they still have theaters in L.A. So we took one of our shows that was pretty successful in New York City and I was a performer on it.
00;08;07;22 - 00;08;34;05
Max Brand
A friend of mine wrote it. It was a great show. We took it to L.A. for a couple of performances and fellow MAD Company board member Lauren Zbylski lived out in L.A. and Lauren and I went to high school together. And so I was like, Hey, you want to grab a drink? Just say, hey, like, catch up. And so I met up with her and her sister, and she just had let me know that she was applying for a bunch of master's programs and she mentioned a bunch of schools, and one of them was LAMDA.
00;08;34;18 - 00;08;56;15
Max Brand
And I had, I had thought about applying for going back to school, but I never received a bachelor's degree. And so I was sort of limited in my options. And so I couldn't apply to any schools in the U.S. But then I looked at LAMDAs website and they were like, they would take professional. Well, I mean, I mean, I maybe that's true.
00;08;56;15 - 00;09;12;03
Max Brand
I mean, I got in, so maybe that's true. But they put on their thing that they, they would allow for professional experience over a bachelor's degree. So I basically sent them my resume and my TV credits, my film credits and like things like this that I'd done throughout the years, which none of which are super impressive, but they're there.
00;09;12;03 - 00;09;30;10
Max Brand
They are physically. I did do things that showed up on certain platforms, so I kind of sent that their way and they were like, Yeah, this works for us. So I applied just to LAMDA. That was the only school I ever applied for, yeah. And I was like it. If it doesn't happen, I'm still performing and I'm still like, you know, growing my career.
00;09;30;10 - 00;09;48;13
Max Brand
But I felt like LAMDA would be. I always wanted to study Shakespeare because I was never that good at it, and I was kind of intimidated by it. And I was like, Well, I think that's like real actors know how to do Shakespeare. And so I applied and I worked with one of my acting coaches for them for a monologue, and I did it.
00;09;48;13 - 00;09;52;21
Max Brand
And I was like, If that doesn't work, I just go back to doing comedy and my stuff that I'm...
00;09;52;27 - 00;09;53;29
James Hale
Try a thing.
00;09;53;29 - 00;09;59;28
Max Brand
And then I ended up getting in. So I was like, All right, let's do this. And yeah, so.
00;09;59;28 - 00;10;15;19
James Hale
That's amazing. Yeah, just kind of happens. Why, so you wanted to study Shakespeare because mostly some real actors do Shakespeare. What was it, you said you wanted to be an actor since age four. What was the impetus for that? What were you seeing that made you want to suddenly become an actor?
00;10;15;19 - 00;10;34;21
Max Brand
I think it was the idea that I loved playing pretend in the woods and I would do that by myself all the time, especially because we moved around so much as a kid. I mean, by 4 I was still very young, obviously, but I, but I remember watching, I was watching movies especially, and it was like, oh, as a grown up, you can be, you can just play pretend.
00;10;35;01 - 00;10;52;01
Max Brand
And I was and it always was very exciting. So I think that's what it always was for me. It was like, Oh, I can just live all my fantasies that I'm doing on my own in the woods. But I can do that for money.
James Hale
Forever.
Max Brand
Yeah, forever. And, well, at least I thought it was for money the last 16 years have proved.
00;10;52;03 - 00;10;52;24
James Hale
Proved otherwise.
00;10;52;24 - 00;10;54;25
Max Brand
Periodically for money, but often not.
00;10;54;25 - 00;11;10;08
James Hale
Yeah, sure. That's very pretty self-aware for a four year old. I feel like as a child, I watched whatever it was and I always wanted to be the things the actors were portraying, not the actors themselves. So it's, impressive that you could realize that these people were just pretending up there.
00;11;10;08 - 00;11;24;20
Max Brand
Well, thank you. I mean, I'm not sure, you know, I mean, my mom told me, like, I don't, I don't have vivid memories from being four years old. So my mom was like, I, she told me that I'd been talking about it since I was four years old. So it's possible she lied. She could be just a straight up liar.
00;11;24;20 - 00;11;40;00
Max Brand
And I never said anything about acting until I was ten or something, But. But yeah, I think it was mainly that I was like, you know, I would see, you know, and see these people on the box doing the exciting things like, Who are these people? And my mom would be like, Those are actors. I was like, Oh, well, that sounds fun.
00;11;40;01 - 00;11;42;20
Max Brand
They can be in space, they can be underwater or whatever, you know?
00;11;42;23 - 00;11;46;11
James Hale
Yeah, really just all derives from you wanting to be in space and underwater.
00;11;46;13 - 00;11;48;20
Max Brand
Maybe that's it. That's, that's, that could be.
00;11;48;20 - 00;11;49;09
James Hale
That's the height of it.
00;11;49;22 - 00;11;51;11
Max Brand
The entire reason I'm doing this. Yes.
00;11;51;29 - 00;12;15;08
James Hale
So in New York, 16 plus years acting, doing comedy, living life, I'm curious how, how is it, how, how do you think you've done finding balance between making art, making money, having a life and friends? And what are some of the things that you've learned or some of the, the ideals that you strive for in order to make that balance happen?
00;12;15;11 - 00;12;17;04
Max Brand
Oh, big question, James.
00;12;18;17 - 00;12;20;17
James Hale
We dig deep here at One Hale of a Conversation.
00;12;21;08 - 00;12;44;25
Max Brand
Oh, yeah. Hale yeah. Well, I would say that I have loosened my grip on what should happen as an actor artist in New York City. When I first got here, I think I had very harsh judgments for anybody with any sort of day job that would take over their life, ostensibly because I was like, You have to be available for every audition.
00;12;45;06 - 00;13;01;04
Max Brand
That's what was drilled into me for a long, long time. And it was like, if you say no to one thing, then you're going to be blacklisted and no one's going to want to work with you and all this kind of thing. And so I did that in my early twenties and it was wonderful because I was in New York and I was doing new things.
00;13;01;04 - 00;13;16;05
Max Brand
It was also a little bit of hell because I, I just really hated most jobs I had. The good part about it was they were all like stressful in the moment. But then I went home and there was nothing to worry about. It was like, Yeah, it was a catering event that absolutely does not matter anymore, you know?
00;13;16;05 - 00;13;47;03
Max Brand
So that was nice. But, but I was just like physically exhausted. I'm a person who likes to get up early and go to bed early. And I was working all these jobs that I was up til 2 a.m., 3 a.m.. So anyway, I think I started when I started doing things at UCB. I started kind of working with writers that have like regular day jobs and then would write sketches at night and then some of them would kind of end up being actors and, and they never had to do like a, you know, like a bad restaurant job or something like that.
00;13;47;04 - 00;13;52;10
Max Brand
Not to say that, like there's really good restaurant jobs, too. I had some bad ones.
00;13;52;24 - 00;13;54;10
James Hale
But not to knock the restaurant.
00;13;54;14 - 00;14;07;18
Max Brand
Yes, exactly. We love the restaurant industry. I love to frequent your establishments, but, but I think I realized I was like, oh, I don't have to do what, like all the plays and all the movies say that actors have to do, right?
00;14;08;00 - 00;14;10;00
James Hale
The broke artists, right?
00;14;10;00 - 00;14;30;15
Max Brand
Yeah. And so I ended up for UCB. I actually ended up being a tour guide as a day job, and then I sort of cobbled together. I worked with dogs for a while. So for a while I was a tour guide and a dog walker. And then I would because I was making friends and connections and people that were doing, producing things in the comedy world.
00;14;30;15 - 00;14;57;06
Max Brand
I would be hired as an actor for a lot of projects that ended up going online, but also there were like very small things for a TV show and all these kind of things that cropped up through people I knew at UCB. And so I was able to kind of definitely before the pandemic, before going to LAMDA, I was able to sort of cobble together a life for myself of about three or four different day jobs with acting jobs.
00;14;57;07 - 00;15;03;15
Max Brand
And I was, I was proud of myself because I was like, well, I'm, I'm not in the red.
00;15;03;15 - 00;15;05;00
James Hale
Yeah, I'm making it work
00;15;05;00 - 00;15;13;05
Max Brand
I'm making it work. But it wasn't, I wasn't growth oriented. It wasn't like, oh, in five years, this is going to be still great. It was very…
00;15;13;05 - 00;15;14;01
James Hale
Right, it’s not sustainable.
00;15;14;02 - 00;15;38;09
Max Brand
Right. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to go to LAMDA was because I wanted to get back to the art. But I also, frankly, wanted to set myself up in a position that might help me make more money as an artist. And having a master's degree is very helpful. And for many reasons. But even if I wanted to do something else like regular job wise, I think I wanted to go back to school for that reason and have a master's degree on my resume.
00;15;38;10 - 00;15;54;19
Max Brand
But yeah, so before, before I went to LAMDA, I think it was, it was very much a cobble it all together. And, you know, my, my now wife, but I was, you know, dating her and, and, you know, she and I kind of had similar lifestyles. We didn't have a dog, which we have now. We love our dog, but it's like we didn't have a lot of things.
00;15;54;19 - 00;16;17;24
Max Brand
And so we were each periodically up till like 1 a.m. various nights and and just tired. So, you know, for me it's like now I just, what I tell everybody is like, do what, do what makes you feel best. And then you will have opportunities for art no matter what, right? But if you are feeling good about yourself and you know… you need a job that you can do auditions.
00;16;18;13 - 00;16;20;14
James Hale
Right if you can’t do art, then you can't do art.
00;16;20;14 - 00;16;42;20
Max Brand
Right. But I think you know, most day jobs, especially now in this environment where things are remote, it's like people go like people that aren't artists get off for like hours for doctor's appointments or whatever. And it's like, you know, if you get your work done you can make it work. So it's like, do it. You like, do it, do it, make it makes you not miserable.
00;16;42;26 - 00;16;48;12
Max Brand
And then you'll be able to at least my opinion is you'll be able to probably deal with the artistic lifestyle a little bit better.
00;16;48;25 - 00;16;53;09
James Hale
That's... I would agree with that. I mean, that seems wise. No, don't be miserable.
00;16;53;14 - 00;16;53;29
Max Brand
Yeah.
00;16;54;11 - 00;17;08;01
James Hale
Having sort of come to that, gone through like maybe the typical artist's life to where you are now, what does success look like to you or how would you define success for yourself, either as an artist or just in life?
00;17;08;08 - 00;17;28;15
Max Brand
Yeah, I mean, it's sort of a question I think I grapple with every day. Right now I think my version of success is balance in both my life and as an artist. If you have balance, you're usually pretty okay in the sense that you're going to have moments that are, like, incredible and really exciting and all of that.
00;17;28;15 - 00;17;50;10
Max Brand
And then you're going to have moments that are, like, really terrible and you just hate everything. But if you can always sort of come back to an equilibrium at the end of each of those days, then I think you're in a good spot. So in, in my mind, like success would be, I mean, monetarily, it would be making my money for my life as an artist.
00;17;50;10 - 00;18;09;27
Max Brand
I would definitely be a version of success that I don't think I've, well, I definitely have not achieved. As of now. I make a certain amount of money doing it, but it's not like this is the only thing I’m doing. But also success on that sort of same train of thought is not having to worry whether I can afford my apartment at the end of the month.
00;18;10;04 - 00;18;27;08
Max Brand
So therefore, you know, I have a day job. And I, that is a version of success is like I am secure in that so that I'm not, you know, every night pulling my non-existent hair out. But, I'm a bald man, in case you are not watching this.
00;18;27;20 - 00;18;28;20
James Hale
In case this is audio only.
00;18;28;22 - 00;18;48;14
Max Brand
But yeah, I think it's, uh, it's a lot of that feeling, which is like, what are your priorities and how can you be an artist in those priorities? So for me, it's like the art I make is incredibly important to who I am as a person. And in order to create that art, I need to know that I have a place to sleep.
00;18;48;14 - 00;18;50;19
James Hale
Right, a modicum of stability.
00;18;50;22 - 00;19;10;11
Max Brand
Right. So I think that's, I think that answers that. It’s like, I need stability for myself to be an artist. I also cannot only have stability because being an artist is pretty crazy and wild and wonderful. But, you know, everything. And so I can't just have stability. I couldn't live that kind of life. But I also can’t have…
00;19;10;12 - 00;19;21;05
James Hale
So some mix of stability and freedom for artistic creativity. I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me. That feels like a, a noble thing to strive for, for sure.
00;19;21;05 - 00;19;24;26
Max Brand
Yeah. We're all, we're all striving, we’ll see if any of us get there. Yeah.
00;19;25;00 - 00;19;45;15
James Hale
We all strive. You found this balance for yourself as an artist. You have an idea of what success looks like. Something to strive for. I am not, I do not consider myself a comedian by any means. And so I'm curious about sort of the creation of material as a comic, specifically as someone who writes your own, your own stuff. So, two part question.
00;19;45;27 - 00;20;04;05
James Hale
A: where do you find thoughts, ideas, the impetus for whatever eventual product you create, and how do you go about turning that idea, whatever it is, into a joke, a sketch, a character? How does, what, how does that come about?
00;20;04;16 - 00;20;24;21
Max Brand
Cool yeah, you know, it's funny because I, I think comedy is not for everybody, but at least for me is similar to acting in the sense where it's like if you have any one off conversation with me, I'm not going to be the funniest guy I've ever talked to. In general, I…
James Hale
Don't sell yourself short.
Max Brand
Thank you. But I think it's, you know, I don't really put that on myself generally day to day.
00;20;24;21 - 00;20;56;04
Max Brand
I think there are comedians that do and are brilliant. You'll meet them and you're just like, This is the funniest guy I've ever talked to. And they're a brilliant comedian as well. It's just like, Oh man, for me, it's, I think I have to work for it. But I find generally the original feeling for it incredibly fun. And the work is generally like honing down the idea to explain the thing that made me laugh in my head to an audience.
00;20;56;14 - 00;21;23;29
Max Brand
Yeah. So it's like, I guess, you know, a lot of my ideas come from extremity of emotions or feelings, so something that really makes me mad will often help me come up with a joke about it. Because if I just start writing all the ways it makes me mad, then you know, I can see how ridiculous it is that I'm mad at that or how stupid I am for being mad at that.
00;21;24;02 - 00;21;24;12
James Hale
Okay.
00;21;24;13 - 00;21;49;08
Max Brand
Or you know, something like that, or how absolutely righteous I am in being absolutely like this is the truth and all of that. And I think how it is, you know, I have the most experience writing characters like something you may see on Saturday Night Live or something like a monologue with jokes all the way through it. So they have a very specific voice and a very specific point of view, you know?
00;21;49;08 - 00;21;56;15
Max Brand
So sometimes that just comes out of me, you know, like James and I did the scene for our final scenes for LAMDA.
00;21;57;01 - 00;21;57;26
James Hale
Our showcase.
00;21;57;26 - 00;22;17;20
Max Brand
Our showcase, which was, you know, about one of our characters accusing the other character of being a sink pisser. And that all stems from me going to the bathroom in my apartment. Nobody freak out. But I went in my apartment and I just looked at my sink and I'm tall and I was like, I could just piss in my sink.
00;22;17;20 - 00;22;18;11
James Hale
It’s the right height.
00;22;18;11 - 00;22;35;03
Max Brand
Yeah. And I'm like, That's. That would be weird. And then I made, like, a voice of, like, sink pisser, you know? And that's how it, like, just came out of it. And it was just fun for me to do that voice. And it was fun for me to write that because I was like, Who is this person who loves pissing in sinks or is,
00;22;35;04 - 00;22;58;14
Max Brand
and what ended up being the case, was ashamed of being a, of pissing in sinks is this dark secret. And ended up being that, you know, he was from, you know, a lower class upbringing where they didn't have toilets and, you know, it was very silly. But it's like based in the reality of sort of, I guess, how the world works, which is like when you grow up a certain way and then you interact with other people and they say, like, that's not how…
00;22;58;14 - 00;23;00;14
James Hale
Your normalized behavior is, is not normal.
00;23;00;14 - 00;23;21;28
Max Brand
Right, and I think, like I have a lot of that, especially with moving around. There's a lot of times in my life where something that I thought was normal in my family and or in my country, for that matter, when I lived internationally, was like made fun of by my peers and not like in a terrible way, but, you know, like when I lived in Singapore, they called a cell phone, a hand phone and, which makes perfect sense.
00;23;21;28 - 00;23;40;17
Max Brand
But when I called it a cell phone, everybody made fun of me, you know? So it was, like, kind of that learning curve of like, oh, they just call it something different in the same way that Americans would make fun of me if I called it a hand phone. So anyway, it was just it's one of those things that I'm fascinated by and within the last three or two years, I've been doing more standup.
00;23;41;07 - 00;24;06;01
Max Brand
And I think those kind of come out of, I think, mostly poking fun at myself and the same thing, which is like things that frustrate me or whatever. But there's a lot about standup that's calling out your own appearance and calling out what people see because that's who's on stage. And so it's a lot about me, like analyzing what I look like and what I think is weird or or what I think is actually really good.
00;24;06;09 - 00;24;07;22
Max Brand
But people have told me as weird.
00;24;07;23 - 00;24;08;02
James Hale
People have… Right.
00;24;08;09 - 00;24;22;20
Max Brand
You know, and, you know, and then the audience can sort of have fun, hopefully, with the idea of like, yeah, I do see what I'm seeing. Yeah. And this guy's crazy for thinking that, you know. But yeah, so I think that more or less answers it.
00;24;22;21 - 00;24;39;07
James Hale
Yeah. Yeah. So as, as you move more into standup, do you feel like you come from this place of writing mostly characters and then evolving that into comedy? Do you feel as a stand up that you're playing a caricature of yourself on stage or are you just up there telling jokes about yourself ostensibly?
00;24;39;07 - 00;25;00;06
Max Brand
Yeah. I mean, I think I mean, I think everything is I think all stand up comedy is a little bit of a character. I mean, like I said, there are maybe people that are completely themselves doing standup comedy, but, but I'm not sure that's even true because it's, it's always going to be a distilled version. Right. And you are there to make people laugh.
00;25;00;20 - 00;25;05;05
Max Brand
So it's like me in my regular life, I'm not existing in the world to make everybody around me laugh.
00;25;05;16 - 00;25;07;04
James Hale
All evidence to the contrary.
00;25;08;09 - 00;25;32;17
Max Brand
Well, thank you. But it's, it is like, you know, I'm just I'm just kind of existing in the world and ridiculous things may happen or may not happen. But I think for standup, it's like I have 5 minutes and I'm trying to tell you in the most concise way possible, the reason why I think this situation is funny or I am free or like, look at this thing that's dumb about me or.
00;25;32;21 - 00;25;37;28
James Hale
Right, and the purpose of my being here is for one specific event.
00;25;38;05 - 00;25;38;21
Max Brand
Yes.
00;25;39;00 - 00;26;00;09
James Hale
Interesting. That's really interesting. And I'm fascinated. So your comedy comes from the extremities of emotion, which is really interesting to me. I clue in on that because that's one of the things that LAMDA we talked about a lot, especially with Shakespeare, is that all of these plays in the canon deal with the absolute most in human behavior at whatever end of the spectrum.
00;26;00;25 - 00;26;21;28
James Hale
You know, it has to be literal life and death. It has to be, you know, you will spend the rest of your life and be wonderfully happy or you will not spend the rest of your life and be tremendously sad. And so it's interesting that sort of what I think of as and I would say a lot of people think of as sort of the height of drama is in fact also the essence of, of the comedy that you create.
00;26;22;16 - 00;26;57;10
Max Brand
Yeah, I mean, I would agree with that, I think because to me it's like even if my jokes are not particularly full of emotion or anything like that, some of them I think, have like sort of a character aspect to them. But I think like if you rehearsing like anybody who's like rehearsing a Shakespeare show, I think most of the time throughout the rehearsal process, there will usually be a point like if you're doing, we just did Romeo and Juliet and you know, you can laugh about the fact of like, you know, you can say like Friar Laurence, like if you just want to deliver that thing yourself or something like that, you know, you
00;26;57;10 - 00;27;11;11
Max Brand
can sort of laugh at like the fact that so many things could have been solved if one person would have just done something slightly or like, you know, Romeo, it's like if you just would just chill. You just didn't kill yourself right then, you know, Wait.
00;27;11;15 - 00;27;12;16
James Hale
Wait one literal minute.
00;27;12;16 - 00;27;43;03
Max Brand
Right. And it's like, so I find that like a lot of times for standup or for sketches or whatever, it's like that juxtaposition of, like, if I have a crazy experience with someone, like one of my jokes is all about based on what my family has told me about living in New York and how my family is like, I could never live in New York you know and like and they do say that dramatically and they do say it with that, much like disgust for living in the city or whatever.
00;27;43;16 - 00;27;49;11
Max Brand
And so for me, it's like I make fun of that because I'm like, yeah, like it's not that hard.
00;27;49;11 - 00;27;49;25
James Hale
Why such a visceral reaction.
00;27;49;25 - 00;28;03;06
Max Brand
Yeah, exactly. So I think like that is sort of the extremity of emotion, but it's sort of calling out that it’s ridiculous to have that extremity of an emotion about just a place to live, you know?
00;28;03;24 - 00;28;06;23
James Hale
Right. 10 million people live here, like we’re not all crazy.
00;28;06;24 - 00;28;18;14
Max Brand
And like, I think, yeah, we like, like living here, like it's expensive for a reason. Like... So I don't know. So I think like that's, that's part of what I talk about, I think. But dealing in extremes. Yeah.
00;28;18;27 - 00;28;40;10
James Hale
Sure. So we did just come out of Romeo and Juliet about a month ago. You were the assistant director. You also ran the show every night virtually by yourself, which is an incredible feat that was a relatively new experience for you. Yeah. I mean, you had run aspects of shows before, and I, I think you've directed some of your own.
00;28;40;10 - 00;28;54;07
James Hale
I mean, certainly direct your own comedy, but you've directed some sort of theatrical fare. How was Romeo and Juliet? How was the scale of the show and how was working with with Hannah in particular?
00;28;55;01 - 00;29;28;14
Max Brand
Yeah, I mean, the scale was probably the most intense thing. I definitely worked on projects of this scale or even more, but I've but as an actor or, or an extra or something like that, that's like such smaller and less stakes. This was a wild experience that I wouldn't take back to the world because it was incredibly informative and I learned so much.
00;29;28;27 - 00;29;37;12
Max Brand
I learned so much from Hannah. I'm only thankful to her for letting me be by her side throughout that whole process because I just was like, amazed.
00;29;38;13 - 00;29;44;05
James Hale
This is Hannah Eidinow our, our director, who we brought over from, from London for the show.
00;29;44;15 - 00;29;58;29
Max Brand
Yeah. I mean, she's amazing at what she does. So it was really great to just have a little bit of a window into her thought processes. I mean, first of all, everybody knows this, but a director deals with so much.
00;29;59;10 - 00;29;59;23
James Hale
Sure.
00;30;00;04 - 00;30;20;24
Max Brand
And as an actor, I don't think there is sufficient, unless you like, have been on the other side. I'm not sure actors have sufficient scale of what they are dealing with, with theatrical performances like large scale theatrical performances and films. But I think films people understand a little bit more because...
00;30;20;24 - 00;30;27;01
James Hale
We talk about the auteur in film much more than we do about the director of a, of a, even a Broadway show.
00;30;27;01 - 00;30;55;25
Max Brand
Right? Yeah. And, and with film, you see them behind the camera and you see them talking with the sound person or the director of photography or whoever it is. And with, with stage stuff, I think the actors come in for rehearsal, which they may or may not realize, like, you know, the months that they've been talking about this project beforehand and then the meetings that are happening after rehearsal, that are happening before rehearsal, and the text messages that are like, you know, with what is happening with this.
00;30;55;25 - 00;31;17;19
Max Brand
And so it's just the scale of the things that she was keeping in her mind are, was incredible. And the fact that she was able to, on top of all that have individual conversations with actors about, you know, motivation or, you know, moving from this side of the stage to that side of the stage or why would I do this?
00;31;17;19 - 00;31;42;09
Max Brand
Or, you know, should we play with this moment or however it is, I just, I found myself amazed because I have directed, you know, much smaller things. I've directed a short film and things like that, but it was smaller and it was a shorter script and there was less things to think about. And once the lighting had been figured out and once the director of photography was like, This is what we're going to do is like, great, now I can just concentrate.
00;31;42;23 - 00;32;09;19
Max Brand
And for Hannah, I just was amazed because she was able to remember what she said to an actor beforehand. Continue that conversation and then turn to me and be like, Hey, we're going to need a schedule like, you know, two extra hours at some point for us to go over what we just talked about with this actor. And on top of that, we need to think about the lighting because there are eight actors on stage instead of six or whatever it was.
00;32;10;05 - 00;32;28;16
Max Brand
And, and then the sound cues and, you know, there's all of that in her head at all times because everybody's coming to her and I was amazed, and I think as the assistant director, and I think I was initially kind of because I'd never done it before, I was like, okay, what am I like, What is what is my role?
00;32;28;23 - 00;32;29;07
James Hale
What is this job? Sure.
00;32;29;07 - 00;32;54;04
Max Brand
Yeah. And like and then I think we ended up probably doing something that wasn't probably wouldn't be defined as the assistant director role, but I, but was very, I felt what was nice is I felt very useful and I felt very like I was helping the production and I was able to connect with Hannah. And, you know, I would pitch certain ideas that she would say absolutely not.
00;32;54;11 - 00;33;11;24
Max Brand
And, and I was able to be. And what was so nice about that, honestly, was that like, I knew that it felt to me and you'd have to talk to her if this is true. But, you know, it felt to me like she had respect enough for me to not just be like, Oh, nice. Okay, we'll think about that.
00;33;11;24 - 00;33;32;06
Max Brand
You know, it was like, No, that's a bad idea. So that when I pitched something that was a decent idea, she was like, Oh, you know what? That's actually good. Let's, let's talk to the actors about that or let's figure out how we can make that work. And there were a lot more rejections than, than positive things, but I think it was really, it was really good and it was really nice because I was like, Oh, cool.
00;33;32;06 - 00;33;55;27
Max Brand
So I can, I know the scale now. Like, I know I know why something is being rejected. I know why something is being accepted.And it helps my brain sort of if I were to ever direct something in the future, which I would love to do, it's like it helps my brain go like, Oh, this is what's helpful and this is what's just something that you may want, but doesn't need to happen.
00;33;55;27 - 00;33;56;25
Max Brand
Yeah. So that was…
00;33;56;25 - 00;34;08;21
James Hale
That's an idea that's fun and useful, but maybe not the most useful or the most necessary. That's really interesting. So you would, you would like to direct. Is that something that you envision for yourself in the future?
00;34;08;29 - 00;34;33;14
Max Brand
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think it would be wonderful. I think it would be. And once again, it's like so much about the team of everybody around you especially. But I, but I do think it's like it's a wonderful process. And I think the director is truly able to take a step back. And Hannah's incredible at it of just seeing what the show needs.
00;34;33;14 - 00;34;45;03
Max Brand
And, you know, I would see throughout the rehearsal process, you know, the same process that I was having with Hannah as the assistant director. I would see actors go through with Hannah for what they...
00;34;45;10 - 00;34;46;19
James Hale
Their individual character maybe.
00;34;46;19 - 00;35;04;24
Max Brand
For their process in the sense that, like, you know, actors have a bunch of ideas all the time that a lot of times are like, wonderful. And I mean, all ideas are wonderful, but it's like there were certain ideas that would be pitched at certain times. That was like, that doesn't help the show. And it's not that it's a bad idea.
00;35;04;24 - 00;35;19;15
Max Brand
It's just like, that's not that's not helpful to what we're doing. And I was able to sort of like see some of that at certain times. And that was very helpful for me because I could see, because I was behind the table being like, Oh, why is that happening? That, that makes no sense.
00;35;19;15 - 00;35;20;20
James Hale
Right, contextual these ideas.
00;35;20;20 - 00;35;42;01
Max Brand
In the world that we're creating. This doesn't work. And, and so it's it's very interesting and it was also very interesting of certain ideas that like in a rehearsal like an actor would try something and my first impulse often would be like, Oh, that just doesn't seem to work at all, you know, not like, not as like a judgment, but just like a it doesn't work that doesn't feel like it works.
00;35;42;01 - 00;36;00;27
Max Brand
And then Hannah would be and I would be like, you know, that doesn't feel like it works. And she would be like, Yeah, but I think it might, like, you know, just wait because it's, it doesn't work right now. And, you know, a lot of times she was right. It's like and then certain things that worked in one rehearsal, I think this is the thing I learned as a performer.
00;36;01;12 - 00;36;07;14
Max Brand
And I learned this in UCB too. It's helpful with comedy because it either makes people laugh or it doesn't.
00;36;07;24 - 00;36;08;10
James Hale
Right.
00;36;08;18 - 00;36;27;14
Max Brand
But it was so interesting because sometimes because of the mood of one rehearsal or something, an actor would try something and it would work so well. It would be like a brilliant, wonderful move. Just happened in the moment. And then because they got a good reaction of it, one rehearsal, they would bring it back again and it just would fall flat.
James Hale
It doesn't play the same.
00;36;27;14 - 00;36;45;25
Max Brand
Yeah, yeah. And you know, for comedy, what's nice is like, you can have a moment in a show that's a little bit different and you can get a huge laugh and you feel on top of the world and then you try to bring that moment back the next night and you realize like what, this audience doesn't like that moment.
00;36;46;20 - 00;37;05;11
Max Brand
And it's like a lot of times it's because, like, this moment wasn't organic tonight. It wasn't lived in, in the same way. The mood of the show wasn't the same. And so when you're forcing it, the audience can tell and it's like, doesn't work anymore. And so it was interesting to see those moments where it was like, that was a really fun rehearsal moment.
00;37;05;11 - 00;37;11;27
Max Brand
But then sometimes you had to be like, Yeah, but you got to get rid of it. Even though, that was, that was brilliant when you did it. But now you've got to get rid of it.
00;37;11;27 - 00;37;31;29
James Hale
It worked once, but it won't necessarily work on a continuing basis. So you were in the rehearsal room as assistant director for Hannah. You saw this whole rehearsal process. You did all this work around the rehearsal process that a lot of times actors aren't aware of. We then moved into the run of the show and you moved into the booth and we're calling and running the show every night.
00;37;31;29 - 00;37;45;20
James Hale
How was that experience in and of itself, and was there anything difficult, interesting, do you have any thoughts about moving from sort of being the assistant director in the room to all of a sudden being the person who makes the show happen every night?
00;37;47;03 - 00;38;03;15
Max Brand
Yeah, it was so nerve wracking. Um, it's funny because I think the first few shows, especially with our show, the cues were so important, the sound and lighting cues were so important.
00;38;03;15 - 00;38;04;12
James Hale
Yeah lot of technical elements.
00;38;04;12 - 00;38;28;10
Max Brand
Yeah, it's like what was happening and, and the most important ones were the most dramatic moments of the show. I mean, every single night it was Juliet taking her vial. And there's a transition into the next scene and there's a sound cue for when she drinks the vial. And then, well, first there's a lighting cue that's like a slow fade that ends up like creating a spotlight on Juliet.
00;38;28;15 - 00;38;54;13
Max Brand
I mean, it looked and I think it looked great. It looked fantastic. And Mick did a fantastic job in that role, which made it so nerve wracking for me because I was like, If I mess this up, like, the audience is going to be so angry because, like, I, because I would make I would completely ruin this dramatic moment, you know, that is so pivotal to the story.
00;38;54;13 - 00;39;16;08
Max Brand
And so it was moments like that that just I was just like my heart was racing and my palms were sweating and all of that, especially for the first couple nights. And then there were other moments where it was less of a big deal and there were certain things where I did make mistakes but luckily it was like generally in the, in scenes where there was like a lot of action happening in stage, on stage.
00;39;16;08 - 00;39;40;03
Max Brand
And so it was less noticeable. I'm sure people noticed still, but, but it's one of those things where like lighting and sound is best when you don't notice them. Right. Yeah. But I, but I came up out of it. I mean I've always had profound respect for lighting designers, sound designers, people who run shows, but especially after I've done it, it's like, this is tough.
00;39;40;10 - 00;39;55;27
Max Brand
And it is. And they deserve a lot of money for it and they deserve a lot of like, praise and, and and I don't think they get enough. But it's, it is one of those things that I, I'm appreciative of it. I feel, I felt very proud of myself.
00;39;55;27 - 00;39;56;18
James Hale
As well you should have.
00;39;56;18 - 00;40;11;22
Max Brand
To, to do it just because I was so nervous about it. But, but you know, but I don't think I, I never messed up that Juliet drinking thing and I never messed up the Romeo killing himself. So I was. I was very happy about that. And…
00;40;11;22 - 00;40;12;24
James Hale
The big moments. Yes.
00;40;12;24 - 00;40;13;00
Max Brand
Yeah, spoiler alert for those of you...
00;40;13;05 - 00;40;38;09
James Hale
Right. Yes. It's interesting that you mentioned mistakes you made because, I mean, doing the entire run of the show, I don't know that I noticed any technical elements that went wrong. I mean, I was also on stage, so I wouldn't necessarily have the high level - this is everything that should be happening at all times. But it's, I mean, it's mostly super impressive that you took this job on so well, because at the beginning of the project, you didn't know that you were going to be running the show.
00;40;38;13 - 00;40;46;15
James Hale
That was something that, mostly I, just sort of sprung on you, that you’re welcome. You've got this whole other job you have to do now.
00;40;46;29 - 00;41;16;14
Max Brand
Well, I mean, it was, I'm very thankful for it and it was really cool to be there every night to see the show and how it evolved and, you know, really brilliant performances throughout the show. And so it was, it was really cool and also just very interesting to see why one performance was different from the next and all of that, because I don't think you have, you just you can't see it in the same way as an actor.
00;41;16;15 - 00;41;31;21
Max Brand
Yeah, you can feel it and you can. I think performers often say like, Oh, this audience, this audience doesn't like us or whatever. And, but like from the booth, it's like a lot of times it's like, No, they still like you. They might not be as responsive, but they're still like you.
00;41;31;25 - 00;41;33;00
James Hale
It still reads.
00;41;33;00 - 00;41;36;28
Max Brand
Yeah, or like, they don't like you and you're not doing great or whatever, you know.
00;41;36;28 - 00;41;37;12
James Hale
Go do better.
00;41;37;13 - 00;41;47;25
Max Brand
Yeah, kind of. But most of the time it was like the audience is still on your side. Even if you think, even if you're not getting exactly what you want from them. And so like most time, people are still smiling. People are still like having a good time.
00;41;47;29 - 00;42;14;01
James Hale
And they're in it. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I guess we can't demand too much of an audience in terms of response specifically. So we just have a few minutes left here. I've got a couple of like, just sort of extra time questions that are apropos of nothing. Do you have or can you in this moment come up with, a like, a five year plan for yourself and a ten year plan for yourself that you can just quickly sketch out for us. What might that look like?
00;42;14;08 - 00;42;27;04
Max Brand
Sure. It’s funny, it’s like a job interview. Five years at this place? Ooooo. That’s how I always felt with every job interview, I was like, where do I see myself? Not here.
00;42;27;04 - 00;42;28;05
James Hale
Not here.
00;42;28;05 - 00;42;29;05
Max Brand
Yeah, somewhere else.
00;42;29;10 - 00;42;29;25
James Hale
Somewhere else.
00;42;29;25 - 00;42;43;15
Max Brand
And happy, hell away from you. But I think in five years, you know, as an artist. I would. I would really like to be. I would like to be better. First of all, everything. I think.
00;42;43;29 - 00;42;46;15
James Hale
I mean, that's an important thing to know about… Sure.
00;42;46;15 - 00;43;20;24
Max Brand
Yeah. I mean, just growth wise and I, I think I would really like to have within the next five years really created at least one project that is completely something that's like when it started and where it ends is like mine, um, something that I can be like I'm either telling a part of my story or I am, you know, intimately involved with something and, and I will always be thankful and need a team around me.
00;43;20;24 - 00;43;40;18
Max Brand
Iit'll be, you know, and I'm thankful for anybody that would help me. But I think like in, in the next five years I would like one project that I can be like, this was this is like my, I don't know, there's a lot to put on it, but like, you know, the, like with Sylvester Stallone when he wrote Rocky, it's like, it's like that was his project.
00;43;40;18 - 00;43;46;16
Max Brand
And, you know, I mean, that's, that was an I mean, best picture winner. But it's like, you know, so…
00;43;46;16 - 00;43;47;02
James Hale
That could be your project.
00;43;47;07 - 00;43;58;05
Max Brand
I mean, that would be amazing. I don't, you know, I'm not expecting that. But I will say that's like even if it's something that only three people see, I think it would be great to have a project that's like, I did that. Yeah.
00;43;58;18 - 00;44;18;03
James Hale
Like, yeah, that's I think, I love kind of how broad that is. Like, you don't, you don't have this specific this needs to in the next five years. But yeah, it's always especially knowing where we are now with MAD Company and with ourselves like we are creating our own work and we understand the need to put ourselves out there under sort of our own creative control.
00;44;18;03 - 00;44;24;00
James Hale
So I think that's, I think that's ideal to have that for a goal for the next five years.
00;44;24;00 - 00;44;27;18
Max Brand
Maybe I'm purposely vague because otherwise I have to...
00;44;27;20 - 00;44;28;08
James Hale
Right committing yourself.
00;44;28;08 - 00;44;36;00
Max Brand
Yeah, in five years you're going to have me back on the podcast be like, Where was that short film or where was that stand up set that you always wanted to do is right.
00;44;36;00 - 00;44;52;12
James Hale
We're going to, we're going to roll clip from this. Yeah. And then just in the last couple of minutes, briefly, I've asked this of all of the guests so far, which have been exactly two people. If you weren't an actor/comic/creative, what would you be? What would you be doing?
00;44;52;24 - 00;45;12;24
Max Brand
Oh, there's a big part of me, I think, a friend of mine was an actor and he was a dog trainer. And I was like, as well, yeah, it was. He was always
James Hale
Ok two separate things.
Max Brand
Yeah, He was always torn between like being an actor or being a dog trainer and, and I think I would love, like, to be a dog trainer.
00;45;13;02 - 00;45;34;14
Max Brand
Like, I think that would be really fun. I think, I mean, I love animals specifically, specifically dogs. And yeah, if I could, you know, like in a different life, my family's all in Montana, so if I could be like, be in Montana on a huge ranch with a bunch of, you know, like ten dogs that are all, like, expertly trained.
00;45;34;22 - 00;45;51;27
Max Brand
And then people would come and be like, you know, like, oh, my, you know, my dog's having this issue. And I could take like an aggressive dog and make it like a perfect family dog or I have yeah. I mean, that's I once again high hopes for myself in this other career as well but. Right but I think like that would be a very fulfilling life.
00;45;52;05 - 00;45;52;27
Max Brand
I think so.
00;45;53;01 - 00;46;02;12
James Hale
That sounds beautiful, bucolic and lovely. Well, with that, Max Brand, thank you so much for joining us here on One Hale of a Conversation.
00;46;02;12 - 00;46;04;04
Max Brand
I had a Hale of a time, I'll tell you that much.
00;46;04;28 - 00;46;19;13
James Hale
It's always a pleasure to speak with you. We'll have you back at some point in the future because my roster of future guests is pretty short. So you'll be back. But thank you everyone for tuning in. We hope you have a wonderful day and we'll see you again next time. Bye bye.
00;46;19;29 - 00;46;49;14
Maddi Albregts
Thanks for listening. To learn more about any of the creatives who spoke in this episode, check out their social media links in the episode Description.
